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The EOSHD Blackmagic Cinema Camera Shootout

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#21
richg101

Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:48 PM

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The 1D C in my opinion looks very nice.

But it is $12,999 (maybe even $15,000?) and that is the problem. The Blackmagic is $3000. Shoots 12bit raw. You may have heard of it :)


I was of the same opinion. But then found out Wilkinsons cameras are offering interest free on the 1dx. When the 1dc comes out it will probably be the same. based on current preorder prices in america the 1dc works out £1500 more than the 1dx. People waste £8000 interest free on a new ford fiesta!, I'd rather cycle on my pushbike and have a 1dc which can take photos at the most professional level before medium format, while also shooting lovely movie (maybe only slightly better than the 1dx, but I think the 1dx looks rather good.:) ). I recon shooting 4k, applying some softening to the 4k and downscaling in post to 1080 will yield some nice organic stuff. There is also the added benefit of having 4k to fall back on and remain current a few years down the line.

I think if I had this costing me £150/month on interest free for 4 years I'd be making sure I was getting the work in to pay for it. I recon it would still be a viable tool in 4 years.

#22
Sean Cunningham

Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:49 PM

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The form factor really is good for my kind of work. I don't 100% understand the obsession with excessive rigging. Here I have with the Blackmagic a much larger screen than a DSLR and a picture making box with securer connections on top of sticks. Want more? Not me. On a DSLR you have a tiny screen and wobbly HDMI port, then inevitably spidery arms to whatever add on is flavour of the month. Not for me really. I like the simplicity the Blackmagic gives my shoots.


Yes, I too don't understand the complaints over form factor. Form factor for motion picture cameras aren't exactly Apple level and once one is all crazy rigged up you're seeing and dealing more with the rig than you are the actual camera. None of the existing designs are fully-functional for generally more than one mode of use (if that) out-of-the-box. The BMCC is really no worse off for movie making than a DSLR and likely as easily useful and adaptable for stills, if not moreso.

I'm betting you hand a BMCC to a Canon shooter and they'll be productive faster than if you were to hand them a Nikon, or Sony. Or virtually any camera designed by video engineers, who's suck at designing UIs is only bested by those who designed pre-Android and IOS cell phones.

#23
mrsteadi

Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:56 AM

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The reason I didn't buy the BMCC was the small S16 sensor and the inherant large increase in DoF, which is what I'm trying to get away from.

The question I have is why anyone thinks doing a comparison between full size/S35 sensor cameras and the BMCC which is S16 (approx) is a worthwhile endeavour?

#24
Andrew Reid

Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:01 AM

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It isn't approx S16, it is approx Micro Four Thirds. Big difference. You try a S16 lens on the Blackmagic Cinema Camera, likely will vignette by quite a margin.

Sensor size is one aspect of the image, try not to get too hung up on it. Worthwhile endeavour? Don't be silly.

#25
andy lee

Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:40 AM

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So we all think the BMMC produces great images...... and this is the Canon Mount version
Wait till we see a Micro 4/3 mount version and all the glass that we can use then !

Andy Lee
LTI Films
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'If it looks good , it is good!'


#26
mrsteadi

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:05 AM

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Maybe I do get hung up on sensor size as it directly affects the DoF. Yes, the BMCC sensor is slightly larger than S16 but only 3/5ths the height and less than 1/2 the width of a S35 sensor. ( S35 = 24.89 x 18.66mm) vs (BMCC = 15.8 x 8.9mm)

DoF will be increased dramatically and the ability to isolate the subject from the BG will be reduced without getting into the increase in focal length so my wide angle is not, so it's a lot less desireable to me. Has anyone done a proper DoF comparison that you know of?

#27
ultrasonic

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:18 AM

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Thank you very very much for the comparison, very helpful in making buying decisions when one lives like me in a remote area and can't get hold of any of the cams.

Jurgen
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#28
Andrew Reid

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:22 AM

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Maybe I do get hung up on sensor size as it directly affects the DoF. Yes, the BMCC sensor is slightly larger than S16 but only 3/5ths the height and less than 1/2 the width of a S35 sensor. ( S35 = 24.89 x 18.66mm) vs (BMCC = 15.8 x 8.9mm)

DoF will be increased dramatically and the ability to isolate the subject from the BG will be reduced, so it's a lot less desireable to me. Has anyone done a proper DoF comparison that you know of?


You can still isolate the subject from the background. It is not small chip. Who wants a completely creamed out background any way? No major motion picture I can think of off the top of my head is shot entirely at F1.4 on S35mm.

#29
Andrew Reid

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:28 AM

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I kind of lost interest in shallow depth of field when I shot Zen on anamorphic and realised that at F5.6 on a 1.86x crop sensor (GH2) it wasn't giving me much shallow depth of field but that the character of the blur was what mattered most, not how much of it there was.

Here is the relative size of the Blackmagic's sensor to the GH2 and others.

Posted Image

#30
OzNimbus

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:28 AM

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I do believe The Walking Dead is shot on 16mm film. No DOF problems there.
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#31
Andrew Reid

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:29 AM

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You can have razor thin DOF on the Blackmagic. That is what the interchangeable lens mount is there for.

#32
Bruno

Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:01 AM

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You often mention setting the shutter speed to 360 degrees on low light situations, but the shutter shouldn't really be used that way, as it affects the way camera will shoot moving images. A 360 degrees shutter will have twice as much motion blur as a 'normal' 180 degrees shot.
It can be used for effect if that's what you want, but when shooting moving subjects it's not an alternative to raising ISO or opening the aperture, it's got a different purpose.

The picture of the BMCC with the battery module next to the DSLRs is quite scary, what a massive monster :)
DSLRs will feel like a compact pocket camera after using it.

Image quality is in a different league though.

#33
chulx1001

Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:07 AM

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I wish the MFT mount version has an active MFT lenses. Thence we would be able to use all the panasonic lenses with aperture control.
Mida Chu
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#34
aaronmc

Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:14 AM

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Man, am I excited about this. This is the first camera since the hacked GH2 that has gotten me to geek out over some tech.

I think that this essentially confirms what everyone expected: the BMC is well beyond similarly-priced cameras and anything that is cheaper. As some have said before, the real test will be when it is run head-to-head with Arri, Red, and other uber-cameras.

That's not to say this test was pointless, though. It gives us a hierarchy at all price points, while also showing us the possible ways to save money based on our shooting. I know that I am not the only guy who's walking away from this with a different value perspective.

I am curious, though. How much storage do you, Andrew, estimate you will need to work with this camera? I mean, 45 minutes per quarter-terabyte is a number that scares the shit out of me.
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#35
Xiong

Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:34 AM

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Thanks for the comparison Andrew, BMC will be my next camera after the GH2, maybe by them there might even be a BMC MK.2 that'll blow the waters out of the BMC? :)

#36
Bruno

Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:39 AM

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Who wants a completely creamed out background any way? No major motion picture I can think of off the top of my head is shot entirely at F1.4 on S35mm.


It's not uncommon at all.
You can find examples of entire films shot wide open everywhere, from big budget ones (Social Network) to lower budget films (Let The Right One In), there's plenty of films shot like that, at f/1.3 even. It's a beautiful aesthetical choice, why discard it? It's certainly not nearly as over the top as it would be on a full frame like the 5D.

#37
PAVP

Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:43 AM

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Once again thank you Andrew for doing this comparison. I'm blown away by the BMCC, but also the GH2/3 based on just how inexpensive those cameras are. Really like the look of the GH3 but if I had the money i'd grab a BMCC in a heartbeat. I'm tired of reading complaints about the BMCC when in fact there's nothing that can compare in this price range. Almost all of the options have limitations and needed additions to help make it easier to shoot, so what's the complaint there? I just think it's a great time for low budget film makers with these great affordable options.

#38
LorenzoS

Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:31 AM

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Wow, thanks for posting this shootout. Blackmagic pulled the veil from the holy mgf rooms. No more getting away with high prices and poor image quality. Jim, owner of Red has been preaching this same message for years. Can't wait til my BMCC arrives.

#39
lightpainter

Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:41 AM

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Thanks for this first shootout!

For me, i can use my old adapted lenses, the new one from the Gh-2 ( wouw..sad, that Pana could not
bring the advenced gh-2 Sensor in the gh-3 body...maybe gh-5 in 2015).
And the BMCC is in a pricerange, where i can use 2 maybe 3 for filming and at one go, 2 of them record
for lightning situations in rendering in Maya, what i need.
This Camera brings all faster to the point, where the big ones would go...first in 2018...
And they have to may types. CANON..just bring all you know in one c100 and for 2900 euros in one line.
SONY..okay. have the fs100 and short mv hands on vg900...shure taht dey did not build a mini fs-100...nex 5n for 400 euros..


Final, you get with the BMCC so much. i like this, don`t know it remembers me a litte on my old 16mm AAton
and others..
Formfactor, in a modular situation, in a Rig, in a Robot-arm, in a Fly-robot.. just fit it.

AND IT BRINGS THIS PICTURE.... somewhere in 1967... but the girl is not ROMY SCHNEIDER..it is an DROID..ops
and in the POOL ....wosh... ( my english teacha mrs stone says i go better now - thank you sir)

#40
miseducation

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:22 AM

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Impressive test and write up Andrew, always interesting to hear how your relationship with each camera has evolved. In retrospect, a lot of what freaked us out about 5D3 initially was more endemic of the Japanese imaging industry. It's going to take someone like blackmagic to disrupt the expectations of consumers and I think most of us can gladly say its about damn time.




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