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#1
Germy1979

Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:21 PM

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Poor guy..

I just left the latest annoucement on the BMC forum.. Trying to get an update on whether i'll see it before Christmas....2013. While i can understand the frustration everyone must feel over the consistent delays, (a lot of it stems from prior events of products not delivered by BMC on their projected dates..) - i can't help but have sympathy for the guy. It's like watching some little kid get his ass beat by a group of teenagers over there, lol. Some seriously hateful comments that make Personal view look like My Little Pony.. The fact that the company which provide the key component arguably, failed numerous times to deliver a quality part on their end, is not BMD's fault. Some of the arguments are aimed directly at his business chops, or lack thereof. Some threats of lawsuits, etc.. Just bullshit actually. The whole concept was to deliver a Cinema camera packing specs normally priced to rent, or own by rich folk... And make it available for a market that doesn't have that kind of money, yet probably contains the next Orsen Wells.. I think the mindset of that idea alone is why it sucks to see the guy get crucified over the delay.. They could've charged a LOT more.. Resolve also? Gees..

Yeah, don't tell people one thing and not deliver.. Bad business.. I get it.. They're not the first company to have issues at launch. They don't have the luxury of Sony resources. The only way to justify a camera of this caliber at a price thousands less than everything else is to utilize lower cost components.. You get what you pay for though, and apparently the work ethic of the sensor company was the corner cutter.. But I'm glad BMD isn't shipping out a bunch of half-ass cameras instead! So apparently they know the problem, it's being resolved as we speak, and production will kick hard core like a sweatshop very shortly to accomodate these attitudes.. I figure for what they didn't have to make, but did, at the price they're asking... - should hold the customer accountable for a decent bit of patience considering the demand for these damn things. Especially when we know he's probably ten times as frustrated as we are, being held accountable for a shoddy supplier. This is their first venture into making a camera, and if we're holding out hope that they make a 35mm sensor camera next, it may prove to be more grief than it's worth..

#2
Andrew Reid

Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:28 PM

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I think the behaviour on other forums (not this one) has been a disgrace.

Blackmagic are being professional over this, why can't their customers show the same standards? They are letting themselves down with this kind of spoilt behaviour. There's no way a lot of the behaviour we see on forums like Personal-View, DVX, etc. would be tolerated in real life.

At the same time for the last few months I as well have felt the exact same frustration at the delays and the unknowns. Blackmagic are in the same boat as us on that one. It isn't their fault at all.

For the BMCC 2 they should source their sensors from Aptina.

#3
QuickHitRecord

Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:39 PM

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I'd be inclined to agree with you, but when I placed my preorder for the MFT version (same day that it was announced), the reseller cautioned me that Black Magic has slipped release dates several times before, with one (media storage solution?) taking a year from the original release date to hit shelves. If that is true, I find it hard to believe that this is purely the result of a manufacturing problem with a sub-contracted company.

But even after hear this, I still put my name on the list. The MFT version's ship date is not yet upon us, but I expect delays. I won't be up in arms about it. Either I'll get a great camera from BlackMagic, or a great camera from another company if they take too long. I will not participate in any name-calling.

#4
sanveer

Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:42 PM

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I am guessing , it stems from a lack of good manners, and also,from other, more peculiar things. Like:

1. A lot of these people have already committed to projects, to be shot on the BMCC. Which, quite frankly is not a very good move, because, I guess, a lot of people using it, will have to familiarize themselves with the entire Post Production bit, which they aren't still aware of. After all, there is a Huge difference between an 8 bit 4-2-0 and a 12 bit RAW.

2. A lot of people were picking up the BMCC, for bragging rights (like a certain gentleman here, who plans on using the BMCC to shoot the rats in his colony. Or were those his pet cats?)

3. If the BMCC was supposed to be delivered in June-July, and, its November, then, its very sad, that almost 6 months have passed, since its promised delivery date. If i was in line, I would put my money elsewhere.

Though, they Have been improving things at BMCC, and you do get THE best package deal, with the BMCC, I guess, at the end of the day, its bad policy, to promise, and not be able to deliver, whatever the reason may be.

#5
Andrew Reid

Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:46 PM

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They just don't know. It would be daft of Grant to come out and say the MFT version will ship at 7pm on 7th January 2013 when they're still working through the technicalities of a supplier issue. You are completely 100% right to be disappointed though. It is the name-calling that lets people down and it is really unfair on a company who is virtually ALONE on the market in trying to cater to us.

#6
sanveer

Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:50 PM

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They just don't know. It would be daft of Grant to come out and say the MFT version will ship at 7pm on 7th January 2013 when they're still working through the technicalities of a supplier issue. You are completely 100% right to be disappointed though. It is the name-calling that lets people down and it is really unfair on a company who is virtually ALONE on the market in trying to cater to us.


I agree with you. Anger is no reason to lose one's manners. Also, people should realise, that the BMCC offers a Lot More bang, for the buck. But, I guess, there are a lot of frustrated souls, on social networking sites, and discussion forums, and, if they wouldn't be targetting the BMCC, they would be targeting Steven Spielberg, or someone else. I am sure the BMCC just ignores them. :D

#7
sanveer

Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:03 PM

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hahaha ... apparently one hapless sould tried to reason and figure out why, but, it didn't, apparently, help ... :P


http://forums.dprevi.../thread/3296058

#8
Germy1979

Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:12 PM

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hahaha ... apparently one hapless sould tried to reason and figure out why, but, it didn't, apparently, help ... :P

Lmao.. Dp review... Weird...

If filmmaking forum was a city, dp review would be like, a dark alley at 2:00 am in Compton.


http://forums.dprevi.../thread/3296058


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#9
sanveer

Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:19 PM

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Lmao.. Dp review... Weird...

If filmmaking forum was a city, dp review would be like, a dark alley at 2:00 am in Compton.


:P

#10
QuickHitRecord

Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:26 PM

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Now that's a short video skit just begging to be made.
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#11
Germy1979

Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:28 PM

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I'd be inclined to agree with you, but when I placed my preorder for the MFT version (same day that it was announced), the reseller cautioned me that Black Magic has slipped release dates several times before, with one (media storage solution?) taking a year from the original release date to hit shelves. If that is true, I find it hard to believe that this is purely the result of a manufacturing problem with a sub-contracted company.

But even after hear this, I still put my name on the list. The MFT version's ship date is not yet upon us, but I expect delays. I won't be up in arms about it. Either I'll get a great camera from BlackMagic, or a great camera from another company if they take too long. I will not participate in any name-calling.


I've heard that also.. It seems like their issue is just getting suppliers they can rely on. They come out with these awesome products that people can "afford", but finding a reliable supplier is a pain in the ass to get it out there on launch.. Once they get the "bugs" worked out for a steady production, they're good to go. We just revamped our entire video acquisition at church to future proof for a multisite broadcast projection of the sermon. BMD was all over it from upscaling, to processing, etc. They were super friendly.. i had a great experience working with them on something that was a huge undertaking... so i guess that's why i hate to see them get hated on.. Red had issues, but everything they make is in-house i assume, sans the t-shirt department, lol.

#12
andy lee

Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:29 PM

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I do hope they get this fixed soon
there is a whole community awaiting this camera and willing it to work!!
and wanting them to succeed so we can get a second model in a few years time! with more features

fingers crossed!

Andy Lee
LTI Films
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'If it looks good , it is good!'


#13
sanveer

Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:38 PM

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Now that's a short video skit just begging to be made.


Maybe everyone on EOSHD, can send a video of their's, pretending to be (or impersonating) one of the freaks from one of these discussion groups, and then, we could color correct all the footage, and make it into a short. We could chose screen names, similar to some characters, in one of these forums. :D

that would be Hilarious ...

#14
Germy1979

Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:47 PM

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Now that's a short video skit just begging to be made.


What's funny is, somebody whipped out forum senority on him in one comment, lol.

"Who the f-ck do you think you are anyway... "Junior Member"...?! You know how many posts i've got!? Your opinion doesn't even MATTER, for another 319, son! Check out my handle.. It says 'veteran". ....HIGHLIGHTED! I'm a damn dyed in the wool forum american icon! I eat trolls & sh-t noobs for breakfast."
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#15
Germy1979

Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:48 PM

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Maybe everyone on EOSHD, can send a video of their's, pretending to be (or impersonating) one of the freaks from one of these discussion groups, and then, we could color correct all the footage, and make it into a short. We could chose screen names, similar to some characters, in one of these forums. :D

that would be Hilarious ...


+1
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#16
sanveer

Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:08 PM

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What's funny is, somebody whipped out forum senority on him in one comment, lol.

"Who the f-ck do you think you are anyway... "Junior Member"...?! You know how many posts i've got!? Your opinion doesn't even MATTER, for another 319, son! Check out my handle.. It says 'veteran". ....HIGHLIGHTED! I'm a damn dyed in the wool forum american icon! I eat trolls & sh-t noobs for breakfast."


roflm(f)ao ... dude, i laughed so loud, my neighbours must have woken up. just too funny.

Check this thread out. Its f%$king crazy:

http://forums.dprevi.../thread/3294441




Lets do the Mimicry/ Impersonation thing. Every1 can chose 1 favourite character, from some forum, and make a short 10-15 second video, and send it across (post it in good quality sound and Full HD).
I will be the "Russian Freak (pronounced "Rhoosseean Reeekh").

And, the Topic for the short could be:

"What the F#@c were Panasonic thinking. Why did they Not consult us???" ... :D

#17
galenb

Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

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I just hope Grant learns that it's better to just not give release dates until you have a finished product on the assembly line. It's fine to tell people about new products on the horizon, just no release dates. Even if it slips by a week, you'll have the crazies frothing at the mouth and causing all sorts of bad press (if there is such a thing as bad press). I love BMD and I've always had the greatest respect for any company that tries to produce pro-level equipment at consumer level prices. It's called democratization and it plays a key part in forcing the fat cats who sit on their asses to innovate. BlackMagic's main issue is that every time they set out to do something like this, you're taking a serious risk that they won't be able to produce. They probably hear it all the time, "You can't produce something like that at that price!" In order to make something that would normally cost thousands more, it means you have to find the cheapest way to produce it. That obviously means that you are going to have to cut corners or find components from other markets. Maybe even dealing with people/companies that may have less then stellar business practices. The sensors are sourced from a company that normally makes them for scientific imaging. They've never even made this sensor before. Grant said that normally it's a not even a color sensor! So it's a risk you have to be willing to take in the name of democratization and hopefully you'll profit from it in the end.

Good luck Grant!




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