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Sony drop a bombshell with 4K raw, 180fps and global shutter - here are the Sony F5 and F55!

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#41
FilmMan

Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:41 PM

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Prices?:
http://www.creativev...ony-pmw-f5.html

http://www.creativev...ny-pmw-f55.html

Note the US pricing will be different. Usually cheaper.

#42
FilmMan

Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:45 PM

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More info people:

http://www.fdtimes.c...ony-f55-and-f5/

#43
FilmMan

Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:47 PM

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The big differences are inside

The F55 is the more expensive, feature-rich sibling. Since there’s a hurricane outside, please bear with us in case some of the specs that follow are off. The comparison of features makes the head spin. But, in the spirit of a two sentence pitch, here is the difference:
Get the F55 if you want to record 4K, 2K or HD internally to SxS Cards, shoot to 240 fps, have a global shutter, and want an F65 type of sensor design.
Get the F5 if you want to save money, record 2K or HD internally to SxS Cards (but not 4K internally), shoot to 180 fps, skip the global shutter, and want an F3 type of sensor design.

#44
Bioskop.Inc

Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:49 PM

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I still think there's more to come from Sony, maybe even a camera with rolling shutter to kill the BMC - fingers & toes crossed!
If they're going after RED, then they have to do the same with the BMC.

This give quite a lot of info - no global shutter on the F5

http://blog.creative...evealed-f5-f55/

#45
FilmMan

Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:59 PM

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The F5 and F55 cameras take advantage of Sony's new BP-FL75 battery pack, which uses Olivine—Lithium Iron Phosphate—instead of conventional Lithium Ion cathodes. The result is a substantial increase in charge-discharge cycles, compared to previous Sony batteries. The Olivine battery works with Sony's BC-L90 quick charger. The new battery supports outstanding mobility for field shooting enabling two times higher speed charge than current charger and maximum 150 minutes consecutive shooting.

#46
jcs

Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:39 PM

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A supersampled 4K sensor for HD/2K is excellent: that's what we need for true HD/2K resolution sampling without aliasing. 4096*2304 = 9.4Mpixels. Sony's 8.9Mpixels (effective sensor size) aren't enough samples for 4K without aliasing. To get proper 4K we need to sample 8192*4608 pixels: 37.7Mpixels.

#47
FilmMan

Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:52 PM

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Interesting:
http://www.dvxuser.c...#post1986227906
First, thanks for the well-wishes to AbelCine and our staff. Our NY office is closed until we (and NYC) can figure out how to get it opened and staffed. Our email is down but Chicago and LA are open and doing business.

Second, while you guys have hit on some of the great features of these new cameras, I fear you're missing some of the amazing innovations they include. Two formats can be recorded at once -- either one to the RAW recorder and one to the new SxS card or TWO DIFFERENT FORMATS TO THE INTERNAL CARDS SIMULTANEOUSLY. That's amazeballs. It means you have your editing proxy and master file at the same time without transcode. Or your master file along with a RAW archive copy for future use.

And look at the kitting. Three different finder options. An improved LCD EVF, an OLED EVF and a 7" LCD. The EVFs have L-R adjustment along with a dual arm for fore-aft positioning. And the OLED is tiny and higher in rez. And someone show me another 7" LCD panel which is full rez. HD 1920x1080. You can use that as a finder or an onboard monitor. I want it for every other camera as well!

One camera for 4K/2K/HD internal recording. RAW module snaps on like mounting a battery. New batteries are standard V-mount but more power in smaller package with greater # of run cycles. Or use your old bricks if you want. The basic camera nly uses 25w! Yes there's integrated shoulder pad available and a top handle for mounting the EVF, and by the time the camera is shipping Solid Camera, 3ality Technica, Wooden Camera, Shape and a number of others will have excellent accessories for the few things Sony may have missed (start searching boys).

Oh by the way, did you notice that there's a complet new set of affordable PL mount lenses? A few of us beat them up pretty badly on their first crack at them, but they came back listening to learn what needed to be improved.

F55 is the camera you'll all want to buy and F5 is the camera many of you can financially justify actually buying. But believe me you'll want them.


Mitch Gross
Applications Specialist
AbelCine
212-462-0100
mitch@abelcine.com



#48
Leang

Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:20 PM

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XAVC 5.2 10-bit I likess the workflow! Panasonic HAS to roll out an AG-AF300 utilizing their AVC-Intra 10-bit 4:2:2 and 4K sensor too. Varicam team better start waking up.

#49
FilmMan

Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:25 PM

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Live Chat:
https://www.facebook...294915730613062

#50
FilmMan

Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

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From the live chat:
Comment From Jim Jannard Jim Jannard : ] When can I pre-order one of these?
  • Germy1979 likes this

#51
Ross Wilson

Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:49 PM

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I don't know if anyone else mentioned this but the Ikonoskop A-Cam is a digital Cinema camera and it has a global shutter so it's not a first by a long shot by Sony.

I believe there are several other high end digital cinema cameras that also have it which can be seen in the Zacuto shoot out.

#52
Tzedekh

Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:12 PM

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I don't know if anyone else mentioned this but the Ikonoskop A-Cam is a digital Cinema camera and it has a global shutter so it's not a first by a long shot by Sony.

I believe there are several other high end digital cinema cameras that also have it which can be seen in the Zacuto shoot out.


The A-Cam's sensor is a CCD, as is the Digital Bolex's. The open-source Apertus, projected to cost less than $10K, will be using the CMOSIS CMV12000, an S35 global-shutter CMOS sensor. Sadly, there's no release date for it.

#53
OzNimbus

Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:01 PM

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Is there any info about the sensor being multi aspect? 4:3 would be welcome for the anamorphic crowd.

#54
Dr. John R. Brinkley

Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:23 PM

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These cameras are way beyond my price point. Nonetheless, I'm excited that there is competition and this should work to help us on the lower end get better products eventually.

#55
galenb

Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:56 PM

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Using 2K how does this beat the BMC except in sensor size. Surely 2K is the only doable option for most of us.

The only advantage I can see is 4K and for me would be way to much money for peripheral gear working in 2k raw is bad enough. I can't even see a reason for TV to use 4K for much of their stuff.

Skyfall was just completed using arri raw. 4k for me is still in the future even if they should bring out 4k TV.

I think if Sony wants to win in the market place then they really need to competitively price this and the media.


Indeed. I've wondered this myself for a long time now. I mean, all the Star Wars Prequels were shot in 2k. I saw them and not once noticed any kind of issue. I know, I know, I've seen numbers and the scientific facts that show how much better 4K is then 2K. And in my field, 4K is much better for VFX. But honestly, I think we're going to be fine shooting movies in 2K for quite a while. Yes, 4K TV is coming... But will we even be able to tell the difference when standing/sitting 6 to 10 feet away? I'm not saying I know the answer to that, I'm just asking. I've never even been in a 4K projection house but to me, 2K seems fine. Sure, tons of movies, TV shows, and commercials are all shot on RED in 4K. But eventually most of it gets down-sampled to 2K anyway right?

Regarding the BlackMagic in this conversation: I think we all need to face facts that these Sony cameras are not aimed at most of us here. They are basically taking aim squarely at RED and Canon C300-C500 customers. People who have a budget for a commercial, TV show or medium budget feature. These cameras are not meant to compete with Blackmagic or DSLRs in any way. If you had the money why wouldn't you shoot on something like this? The F5 has 14 stops of dynamic range and shoots in RAW too. I think BlackMagic Cinema Camera is meant to be the grail for most of us here in this forum. But, for guys who shoot 4K RED all the time, these Sony F series cameras must seem pretty tempting.

We'll see.

#56
FilmMan

Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:23 AM

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I'm taking a different road now till proven differently.
Logic. Sony gives 4K with the FS700 but you need a specific recorder, which costs more money. The FS700's 1080p footage isn't as good as the F3. Therefore protecting the F3 market.
Big f'n announcement. People are pumped. Sure the specs look great and the sheep get excited. Talk of very positive pricing. Yet no official pricing from this leading company on the debut day!!! Sony could give a very attractive price but remember they are in the business to make money. Don't fool yourselves folks. Till we see the actual pricing, I'm staying negative neutral - if that positively makes sense? Why no official pricing??? Perhaps they are gathering their intel and deciding how much they can squeeze out of the lemons?
Cheers.

#57
Tzedekh

Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:49 AM

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Sony gives 4K with the FS700 but you need a specific recorder, which costs more money.


Unless I missed an announcement, it's not clear that the FS700 will need a specific recorder. For all we know, it will be able to record raw to any number of external recorders. In an ideal world, it would put out a compressed raw stream, recordable with a HyperDeck Shuttle.



#58
Germy1979

Posted 31 October 2012 - 02:14 AM

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From the live chat:
Comment From Jim Jannard Jim Jannard : ] When can I pre-order one of these?


What a pissing contest, lmao

#59
Germy1979

Posted 31 October 2012 - 02:27 AM

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I'm taking a different road now till proven differently.
Logic. Sony gives 4K with the FS700 but you need a specific recorder, which costs more money. The FS700's 1080p footage isn't as good as the F3. Therefore protecting the F3 market.
Big f'n announcement. People are pumped. Sure the specs look great and the sheep get excited. Talk of very positive pricing. Yet no official pricing from this leading company on the debut day!!! Sony could give a very attractive price but remember they are in the business to make money. Don't fool yourselves folks. Till we see the actual pricing, I'm staying negative neutral - if that positively makes sense? Why no official pricing??? Perhaps they are gathering their intel and deciding how much they can squeeze out of the lemons?
Cheers.


I get the feeling the whole pricing thing is the very reason we didn't see Red's new prices today. It's like Hatfields & McCoys, lol.. Pretty smart on Sony's end as they don't "have" to post anything but a ballpark figure, then drop it dramatically before January, depending on what a Red is running then, lol. (I still don't foresee one of these in my price range..).

#60
hmcindie

Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:09 AM

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I'm taking a different road now till proven differently.
Logic. Sony gives 4K with the FS700 but you need a specific recorder, which costs more money. The FS700's 1080p footage isn't as good as the F3. Therefore protecting the F3 market.
Big f'n announcement. People are pumped. Sure the specs look great and the sheep get excited. Talk of very positive pricing. Yet no official pricing from this leading company on the debut day!!! Sony could give a very attractive price but remember they are in the business to make money. Don't fool yourselves folks. Till we see the actual pricing, I'm staying negative neutral - if that positively makes sense? Why no official pricing??? Perhaps they are gathering their intel and deciding how much they can squeeze out of the lemons?
Cheers.


Cheers? That load of text was so bollocks it was funny? What's with the constant questions? Who's the sheep here? Cameras cost money? Shocking? You have none? *Tears*




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