Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:03 AM
So I've been checking the RX100 and LX7. Comparing the two, the LX7 has caught my attention the most. I've looked at a lot of RX100 footage, but when it comes to shallow dof, I'm yet to see any clips that offer much more than what the LX7 appears to offer, judging by clips I've seen from that. But not a big deal anyway. I was happy with the look I got from the S95 with an ND filter attached.
Here's a comparative list I've compiled so far.
Panasonic LX7 advantages:
120fps at 720p. There's a waterfall clip on Youtube which is a good example.
3 step ND filter.
Cheaper by at least $200 here in Australia
Sony RX100 advantages
Better photo quality due to larger sensor
Camera is smaller
Better in low light?
Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:12 AM
Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:35 AM
I picked the RX100 for low light sensitivity and sensor size (DOF control), also because I know the menus and software are fast and easy... I had the HX9V til I dropped it in the sea, and it was only low light and DOF that it failed at, other than that it was an ideal B-Cam for 550D. I've never been happy with Panasonic menu navigation when I've tried them, so I thought I'd leave the LX7.
But of course some people like different things!
It all has to start with "what do I want to use it for, and how". Look at how the features stack up against your intended purpose rather than as a spec sheet and you'll make the right choice. It looks like both are great for different reasons. I love shooting in dark environments and natural light, so the RX100 took it because of that, as well as my positive experience with the HX9v.
A lot of people have been mentioning the LX7's wider aperture at the long end, forgetting that this is completely written off by the tiny sensor: the Sony is still more sensitive and has shallower DOF at the long end. But of course, if you need a hot shoe and a mic input and often use super close macro and ultra slow motion, AND if you don't always want to shoot at 50p or 60p, then there's only one choice here, the Panasonic.
Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:46 PM
Pretty badly shot, but doesn't look too bad. Dynamic range would probably be better with the RX100 too. I'm still undecided, but that 120fps option would be nice. If it were just used for a few random shots here and there, could easily be uprezzed to 1080P.
Your "what do I want to use it for, and how" makes perfect sense. Although to be honest, my only real requirement is a camera that can shoot video at 1080 50P minimum, with either manual control or some kind of exposure lock. Anything else would a bonus, so I thought it would be nice to get a few opinions here on what additional features others find most appealing. Which I appreciate, thanks!
In fact, if Nokia announce a Pure View Windows Phone 8 device at the Microsoft conference next week, I might even consider that.
- jgharding likes this
Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:16 PM
I like the sound of 720/120p though, that's pretty cool from a little camera!
All the shots of the guy with backpack walking and running around in this video are from the RX100, as are some others like the birds flying away at the start. The band is all 550D though, as is a lot of the other narrative material.
I was really pushing it, running about with it and shooting high-contrast shots. It still has the small-chip 'look' to it -- kind of flat -- but it cuts together with the 550D OK. You can still spot the signature Canon milky movie look though
Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:54 PM
Nice video you've done there too JG. Was the shot of the guy with the train behind him shot on the RX100? If so, how far were you zoomed in there?
Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:59 PM
By music video do you mean live recordings? Being able to add an external mic on the LX7 might outweight a not as good image compared to the RX100 in this case...
Posted 30 August 2012 - 02:12 PM
The first shot of him is 5500D as well, as is the last. All the rest of him are RX100, like the picking the leaf, the close up of his face in the forest, the two far away shots in the forest, looking at the train tracks (so you can see it's possible to focus pull with the RX100, though I'd love if the focus moved more quickly), and the running about shots, which do fall apart a bit under codec stress and jello, but they're good enough for a punk video with a gritty feel.
I can't say if it would have been better with the LX7 though, as I've not used it, but I'd like to try it out.
I use the Sunset profile on the Sony, with a bit of contrast, saturation and sharpness reduction. That profile is known for smoother roll-off apparently, though I've not had time to test extensively, just to use it in anger on a tight shoot! It seems to give nice colours and good dynamic range. I can't recall ever really finding the time for extensive tests TBH, though when I have briefly they're very informative
I no longer pull sharpness all the way out with the 550D, nor do I use Cinestyle or ultraflats (unless it's a super dark shot where I want shadow details, and thus I want everything out the H264 data free zone that is black) as they seem to kill the skintone and other subtle shade details. Just one of the downsides of the 4:2:0 8-bit bullshit... the more range you try and cram into the limited data, the worse the colour transitions become
If you want to prove it with a fun test, try shooting really flat then converting to black and white, then afterwards try shooting to black and white in camera. It's usually pretty noticeable how much nicer the black and white in-camera footage is, detail wise. The data is used for luminance only, it seems, at least on the EOS
Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:46 PM
Nice screen, best I've yet seen on a Panasonic camera. Full manual control in movie mode, but not in the HS (high speed) movie mode. That was set at 720/100p and full auto. No 120p on the PAL model. The camera is not switchable to NTSC for the even higher frame rates. There's no lower resolution 240fps either like on the larger FZ200.
Also the Samsung EX2F is worth a look. Though the 1080p mode is only 30p not 60p, and the image quality at the higher frame rates (up to 480fps) is poor.
The RX100 of course wins on image quality for me. 1/1.7" cannot compare to that larger 1" 20MP sensor, even though the lens on the LX7 is lovely and much faster at the long end.
Posted 02 September 2012 - 11:21 AM
JG, yeah, I thought that shot looked a bit too good to be the RX100.
I use the sunset profile on my NEX5N also, having read Andrew's post here about that a while back. I reduce the sharpness too and haven't had any issues there. I don't know if that helps much with aliasing. Reducing contrast and saturation on the NEX5N doesn't flatten the image too much. It would be much the same as the RX100 I'd assume.
Still undecided on a compact. I've checked a few more LX7 videos, and noticed plenty of blown out highlights.
Andrew, 100P woud be better for PAL anyway with playback rate of 0.250. Easier to calculate although I'm not sure how the camera records the clips.
Posted 02 September 2012 - 12:03 PM
I have a LX7 around, will do a test later this week.
- jgharding likes this
Posted 02 September 2012 - 12:19 PM
One would think the LX7 would drop a stop or two to the RX given sensor size...
Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:17 PM
Besides that, since you work with minimal setup, I can´t really see, why you wouldn´t want to shoot with a bigger camera. A used 550D with the kit zoom lens and ML would shine in your hands and wouldn´t break the bank.
But that´s your call and you´re doing great already.
Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:38 PM
Trouble is, it's still very long GOP AVCHD footage on a smaller than S35 digital sensor, footage feels kind of electronic. I think you'll miss the APSC NEX pretty swiftly. Both is a good shout, but just the RX100? That's brave...
Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:57 PM
Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: S95, NEX5N, RX100, LX7
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