65 replies to this topic

[EOSHD]

Above: Sony's previous foray into full frame, the A900

With Canon this year failing to capitalise in my view, on their huge gains in the video market following the successful 5D Mark II, I have long wondered when one of the big 3 would get it right and give us what we need - a full frame DSLR with equal emphasis on pro video and stills.

My friend Sony Alpha Rumors, a blog so often the recipient of genuine information rates this news highly because it is from multiple trusted top sources and I myself have heard whispers of Sony's approach which match, so I don't doubt it. Professional filmmakers and videographers were involved in the planning stages of the camera for 2 years. The A99 strategy is one of convergence and not only will the camera have the best possible video image quality but Sony are building a video infrastructure around the product to support it.

These developments are incredibly significant...

http://www.eoshd.com/content/8709/top-sources-say-sony-developing-full-frame-a99-as-hybrid-gh2-like-dslr-targeting-professional-filmmakers

[jgharding]

That's pretty exciting!

The only possible downers are: judging by RX100's cost this will be really expensive.... and the Alpha mount flange distance is longer than Ron Jeremy, so I couldn't use my big expensive sack of Contax glass

[EOSHD]

Haha nice analogy. Well the Alpha mount is not the most adaptable, certainly true. Expensive depends on what is in the box though really, and I think it will be explosive. Not literally I hope!

GH3 and A99 have major possibility of providing far better image quality and all-round usability / featureset than any of the current favourites, be it FS100, Blackmagic Cinema Camera or 5D.

Some on Twitter have been underestimating the significance of product planning too. They say it is just a rumour and proof is in the pudding. But for me the pudding is mostly in the cooking and the 5D Mark III was cooked up for photography not video. The chef in this instance is a videographer.

That news alone is enough to have me very excited for the A99.

[Samuel H]

I wouldn't be THAT optimistic. "We wanted to put real great PRO video into this camera" and "we added a continuous LED light on top of it" are somewhat difficult to mix together. I'd bet they've put more effort into AF than in using a great codec. As usual, wait and see...

[xenogears]

I have high hopes on this, even I'm saving for this camera because my birthday (camera is sheduled at October), but Sony has created higher expectations before with disappointing results. I hope the current financial situation pushes them to risk.

A new Nex has been rumored between the 5n and the 7, so i will keep on eye on this too.

[sandro]

Why can't they never do it for the "cheap"? Why not a low cost aps-c camera like the gh2 that costs less than $1k? This will cost more than the 5d i feel!

[EOSHD]

The price that has been rumoured so far has been in $2500 range.

Please bear in mind what a properly video optimised full frame sensor is capable of. We're talking massive amounts of dynamic range, incredible low light, full frame depth of field and much better colour than any of the sensors with smaller pixels. People have a common misconception that we have that already with the 5D Mark III and D800.

You don't at all. You have 1/10th of that it could be.

Because they are optimised for stills not video.

[Germy1979]

They have said a few times, (consitently as well:) - it will be around $2699. Yeah that's expensive... But you usually get what you pay for.... Unless you get a Canon. Lol.

Well. Damn....

So here we are. BMC, A99, & a GH3. All 3 of these are going to be insanely awesome. The a99, and gh3 will probably have clean hdmi out, or AVCHD 2/ultra... Moire and Aliasing are gone. From what i've read they can do a better job downsampling in camera than with using an olpf.

Speculations... We won't get into that. With the way it sounds, they'll have all the features we like, and it will come down to a low-light battle.

Panasonic had 3 processors in the GH2. The Gh3 will probably have enough processing power to conduct a shuttle launch. Gees.. That seems to still be an issue with these other cameras for video mode.. But then again, i can hear the hate comment, "They are stills cameras @sshole!!!!" - already, lol.

[EOSHD]

I wouldn't be THAT optimistic. "We wanted to put real great PRO video into this camera" and "we added a continuous LED light on top of it" are somewhat difficult to mix together. I'd bet they've put more effort into AF than in using a great codec. As usual, wait and see...

Just the focus of the product planner on video is enough to make it better than the current stuff. It will be first time any DSLR has been optimised for video performance.

All the Canon video modes are a hack.

And the GH2 is a good attempt but weak sensor relative to full frame.

[EOSHD]

"They are stills cameras @sshole!!!!" - already, lol.

Yeah, that got old a long time ago didn't it? Round about the time anyone with a clue started offering video production as well as just photography.

[jfro]

If a full frame A99 comes out with video features and bests the quality of the 5D mkII, I don't see a problem at $2500. Sure, I'd like a $2,000 or less camera or even the GH2 price point. It's been proven that the hacked GH2 can put out an image good enough for the big screen at 2k, any thing that bests that image, is good enough. Make it full frame, and even more goodness will come. I have a 5D mk II, and 2 hacked GH2's with a Black Magic Cine camera on it's way. If the A99 comes out with improved video quality and can equal or best my 5D in stills, I'll sell the 5D mkII and Canon glass and make the switch. The holy grail for me is a camera that can do both high quality stills and video.

I'm so disappointed in Canon's 5D mkIII quality and pricing, I'll sell my 3 L and misc other Canon lens and start over. Canon made a HUGE mistake IMO with the 5D mkIII and c300 pricing that's enough to nudge me into changing. Of course, that assumes adapters are avail for my nikon manual lens that don't break the bank.

[hoodlum]

Sony seems to be the only one willing to cannibalize their own products. Every other camera manufacturer tries to project their higher margin products. The RX100 is another example where Sony put all of the latest processing technology and manual controls in a 1" sensor compact camera. It even has the same menu as the Alpha line.

I wish others would do the same.

[tungah]

The "problem" I see with the Sony is the mount. Forget about using inexpensive Nikon AIS glass... and Alpha lenses is hard to come by here in Brazil, at least at reasonable prices anyways.
Andrew, what do you know about the GH3? Any info on that?

[EOSHD]

Sony seems to be the only one willing to cannibalize their own products. Every other camera manufacturer tries to project their higher margin products. The RX100 is another example where Sony put all of the latest processing technology and manual controls in a 1" sensor compact camera. It even has the same menu as the Alpha line.

I wish others would do the same.

Too right. All the market segmentation is crappy, just let the individual products stand up on their own and let them be the best they can possibly be given the technology for the price.

[EOSHD]

The "problem" I see with the Sony is the mount. Forget about using inexpensive Nikon AIS glass... and Alpha lenses is hard to come by here in Brazil, at least at reasonable prices anyways.
Andrew, what do you know about the GH3? Any info on that?

Sure Nikon AIS glass is good value, but you know what - I don't have any. Prefer Contax Zeiss. Sadly those will have to be converted to work on the Alpha mount, rather than adapted.

Yes the mount will be an issue for people heavily invested in non-Sony glass because they can't adapt it.

Maybe Sony have something up their sleeve with the A99 to allow that. So far they have been very supportive of adapting lenses on NEX cameras, even showcasing third party adapter rings in the official Sony Centre here in Berlin and selling them alongside the NEX lenses.

For those with smaller collection of lenses, well the solution is to do a bit of eBaying. Here's what I do if the A99 is the hit I think it will be for video. I'll sell my Samyang EOS mount stuff and replace it with Samyang's Alpha mount versions for same price, possibly the Cine editions that were announced today (14, 24, 35). Another lens I use on full frame is Tokina 11-16mm F2.8 at the 16mm end and that is available for same price as EOS mount version in Alpha mount too. Next up I will likely sell my 85mm Contax Zeiss and upgrade to the newer ZA Zeiss version, though of course it will cost £300 more. For those on budget the Samyang 85mm F1.4 is great value for money and in Sony mount too. Then we come to the Alpha glass, there might be some nice choices there (they have a telephoto lens optimised especially for awesome looking bokeh for example that I thought about using on my existing cameras) but really unless you want AF and some zooms you can save money and stick to non Sony stuff.

As for ultra affordable, what about Minolta primes on eBay?

See, there are options and it isn't the end of the world because of the Alpha mount unless you have tons of L stuff that you can't afford to swap out for the Alpha equivalent. I do agree that the biggest obstacle to Sony's success in the pro market for photography is indeed that people are locked into vast investments in Canon and Nikon glass. If I were Sony I'd make the SLT assembly and Alpha mount detachable from a new mirrorless full frame mount. Essentially imagine the NEX SLT adapter as part of the camera, and it comes off when you need to put on a Canon or Nikon mount instead.

[jgharding]

Sony are an odd bunch, there's always that battle between the company philosophy of locking people into their accessories. Does anyone remember ATRAC3 (the alternative to MP3), or the UMD disc, or Sony Memory Stick?! They've killed a lot of products with attempts to control accessories. So I've been surprised that they're not too fussed about NEX adapters. It's just a shame they picked the longest possible mount when designing the Alphas. It was the old Minolta mount, right?

As you say, if it's super awesome enough I could just flog a bunch of Zeiss Contax for newer Zeiss and Samyang. If they can pull the price below the BMD camera and the 5D MKiii yet make it a proper video camera, this could be huge. As you say, they don't have huge lines to protect like Canon...

[tungah]

See, there are options and it isn't the end of the world because of the Alpha mount unless you have tons of L stuff that you can't afford to swap out for the Alpha equivalent. I do agree that the biggest obstacle to Sony's success in the pro market for photography is indeed that people are locked into vast investments in Canon and Nikon glass. If I were Sony I'd make the SLT assembly and Alpha mount detachable from a new mirrorless full frame mount. Essentially imagine the NEX SLT adapter as part of the camera, and it comes off when you need to put on a Canon or Nikon mount instead.

That's indeed a great idea.
How do you rate the legacy Minolta primes against the Nikon AIS stuff? Are they on par? Better?

[Alex Mand]

Well, Canon said the same about the MKIII. That it was in development thinking as a true hibrid cam, remember that?

I think that things will get hot with BBMC launch. Raw footage and 13 stops of DR. And now something amazing coming with the the GH3...

Well... My only concern is the big investment on L glass that I did in the past few years... However we are living in amazing times! "Let the games begin!"

[jgharding]

It's odd but even back at the very start I decided not to buy any Canon glass at all, thinking it was likely that the race would hot up. But then I ended up getting lovely glass that won't fit Nikon or Sony legacy mounts! Still, once everyone chucks out the mirror it wont matter eh?

[chulx1001]

http://www.ebay.com/...#ht_2614wt_1165

remember Sony made the first still-video interchangeable lens camera. Hope they can roar again this time!